Tune in to Dr. Elizabeth Shuler on a journey from traditional mental health to holistic healing. Explore how she has seamlessly integrated psychedelic therapy with yoga to align her business with her core values. In this episode, uncover how the fusion of science and spirituality turns trauma into triumph, paving the way to genuine thriving.
🎧Whether you’re curious about the fusion of science and spirituality or looking to deepen your connection to your work, this episode offers valuable perspectives.
Key Takeaways from this Episode
- Defining a heart-led business
- Transitioning from the mental health field to holistic healing
- The role of psychedelics and yoga in personal transformation
- Navigating business outside the insurance model
- The importance of preparation and integration in psychedelic therapy
- Strategies for setting up a successful heart-led business
About the Guest
Dr. Elizabeth Shuler is a dedicated mental health counselor and yoga teacher who empowers professionals to overcome trauma and unlock their full potential. With a Master’s in Mental Health Counseling and extensive global experience, she combines evidence-based therapy with holistic practices to guide clients on their healing journey. Through compassion and expertise, Dr. Shuler helps individuals transform pain into purpose, fostering resilience and inner strength.
Additional Resources
Website: https://inner-evolution-coaching.odoo.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/innerevolutioncoaching/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/innerevolutiononline/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/innerevolutioncoaching/
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Explore the Dialogue’s Treasures Below: Unearth the insights within to delve into the profound wisdom woven throughout our conversation.
Speaker: 0:01
Welcome to the Heart Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let’s go. Let your heart guide your business journey.
Tom: 0:36
Brace yourself for a delightful dive Down the rabbit hole with our honcho, Liz Shuler. Liz turns trauma into triumph, making Mary with the mind body miracles on her quest to convert professionals from simply surviving, to supremely thriving. So buckle up for a brain- tickling ride into the realm of psychedelic integration yoga therapy on the Heart Led Business Show, where shadow meets light and business meets the beat of the heart. Liz, welcome to the show.
Liz Schuler: 1:12
Hi, good to be here. That was a wonderful introduction.
Tom: 1:17
I love to take credit for writing
Liz Schuler: 1:19
that
Tom: 1:19
but with the advent of AI, it does it for me. with, with a good creative course. Liz, I always like to ask, off what’s your definition of a heart led business?
Liz Shuler: 1:31
The simple answer for me be that a heart led business, you know, is aligned with your core values But want go a deeper because we know now with science and ancient wisdom that of kind the come together that we have brains in our hearts and our guts. So they, they’re are neurons. In around, all our heart and of in our intestines and our stomachs. And those little brains communicate this this brain more this brain communicates those brains. right. Yeah, it’s really cool. And so knowing this it’s a heart led business A businesss that is led from that knowing that felt sense, that gut feeling that following your following your your heart, that comes from literally those little brains communicatiing with our thinking brain and our cognitive functions. So it’s a really literally an alignment between our heart, our gut, and what we call our our brain.
Tom: 2:44
That’s a new take a definition heart led business. And I, I really appreciate mean, I, I didn’t had little brain in our heart. I you know, in our gut, I had a
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 2:56
um,
Tom: 2:56
functional medicine doc on here and,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 2:59
uh,
Tom: 2:59
he was explaining you have gut feeling, but if your gut isn’t in, you know, the proper, you and you have gut not always is your gut instinct, really there.
Liz Schuler: 3:16
Yeah, The, the gut microbiome has has a huge impact on all of
Liz Shuler: 3:21
that,
Liz Schuler: 3:21
with our our heart our
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:23
Yeah.
Liz Schuler: 3:24
a lot of a When we talk about
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:27
heart
Liz Shuler: 3:28
and
Liz Schuler: 3:28
of love
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:30
and connection that
Liz Schuler: 3:30
that we have for other, that comes from that little, that’s just sort around the heart.
Tom: 3:36
very cool. So what
Liz Shuler: 3:38
inspired
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:38
you then to start a heart led So
Liz Shuler: 3:42
I’ve worked in the mental health field for 14 years. more now actually, probably.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:48
and
Liz Shuler: 3:50
it was something that I went into because I wanted to help people. because I face my own challenges and I wanted to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 3:57
people find their way
Liz Shuler: 3:59
in a similar way that I found my way.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:03
And what I
Liz Shuler: 4:03
I realized,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:05
worked in residential treatment for adolescents, I’ve worked in schools,
Liz Shuler: 4:09
I’ve worked in private practices,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:12
and
Liz Shuler: 4:12
all of them have this
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:15
overarching
Liz Shuler: 4:16
system
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:17
that is the medical model that is the mental
Liz Shuler: 4:20
health system.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:22
that at some
Liz Shuler: 4:23
point makes you
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:26
let go of a
Liz Shuler: 4:28
a lot of that heart and gut
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:30
and flow into their
Liz Shuler: 4:32
system.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:33
You have to
Liz Shuler: 4:34
to diagnose,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:36
have to do treatment
Liz Shuler: 4:38
plans, You have to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:39
out what’s wrong with people,
Liz Shuler: 4:41
And that never felt good to me. right? And so I kept jumping,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:46
Like, okay, residential treatment. They tried to, you know, pull me
Liz Shuler: 4:51
me away from that. Heart led piece.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:54
So let’s move into
Liz Shuler: 4:56
private practice.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 4:57
I still have
Liz Shuler: 4:58
have to work with insurance companies,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:00
and
Liz Shuler: 5:00
that right doesn’t feel right either. So let’s try schools.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:05
But
Liz Shuler: 5:06
then there’s, that,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:07
still that overarching
Liz Shuler: 5:09
idea of figure out what’s wrong.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:11
Fix the kids, right? Do something to
Liz Shuler: 5:14
to make them better. When I know in my heart that there’s nothing wrong with them, it’s just that we need to find a different way to deal with our environment, to deal with the things that are going on with us. And so the
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:29
further I went into this
Liz Shuler: 5:31
system, the more I was losing that knowing and that feeling of being heart led and understanding who I was and where I was and the less good I was doing for the people I was working with. I decided
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:48
when my partner wanted to go back
Liz Shuler: 5:50
back to school
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:52
that I
Liz Shuler: 5:52
I was going to try something different. And that meant letting go
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 5:58
lot of the mental
Liz Shuler: 5:59
health system. So that’s where I’m in the middle of right now.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:05
So tell me a little bit your, your current business then. And so if you’re not taking insurance, then obviously it’s cash pay. So how does that, how do you uh, with that?
Liz Shuler: 6:15
Right, So what I’m doing right now is starting to move away from therapy altogether.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:22
So I am licensed currently, and eventually I will
Liz Shuler: 6:27
will let that go, But I’m moving more into the holistic healing, and into the coaching, things
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:36
don’t
Liz Shuler: 6:36
need a diagnosis. I don’t have to think about what the insurance companies are going to say.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:44
don’t have to worry
Liz Shuler: 6:45
about, A diagnosis or treatment plan. it can be with the person in front of me. and I don’t have to worry about
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 6:53
evidence based treatment, which for most insurance companies is mostly like CBT and very strict manualized things. And you can get away with some of the other
Liz Shuler: 7:07
stuff, but to then you have to document it in a very specific way. And it just gets so messy. So, what I’m doing now is a coaching business. is
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:20
Technically, what my business plan says, but it’s more a holistic
Liz Shuler: 7:24
healing
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:26
practice where I use psychedelics.
Liz Shuler: 7:29
Yoga,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:30
things like Reiki and shadow work to help people really get
Liz Shuler: 7:34
get into that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:36
deep healing.
Liz Shuler: 7:38
That
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:38
talk therapy or, any of these manualized
Liz Shuler: 7:43
treatments just don’t get to.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 7:47
That’s really interesting. And a lot of the holistic health practitioners you know, I talk to on a regular basis really struggle with that insurance model, especially in the States. And it doesn’t seem right that. An insurance company that has absolutely nothing to do with medicine is dictating how a doctor or how a therapist should practice. So I commend you for getting outside that and finding a way and, you know, a lot of them are going to that health coach type of, you know, they’re not diagnosing, they’re not prescribing, it’s it’s doing people a lot better because of it.
Liz Shuler: 8:28
And the medical
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:29
is very, focused on sick
Liz Shuler: 8:31
care.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:32
And it’s again, about what’s wrong with
Liz Shuler: 8:34
you,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:35
not about what you have inside the healing
Liz Shuler: 8:39
potential that you have,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:41
and who
Liz Shuler: 8:42
you can be. It’s about managing symptoms rather than becoming who you are supposed to be.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 8:50
Yeah. I mean, It’s like a lot of high performers want to get that edge. And a lot you know, I just think about this TV show, billionaires. I don’t know if you ever saw that, but they, they have a psychiatrist on staff for these traders and in a hedge fund and her whole goal was to get them to perform higher know, you There’s nothing wrong with these mean, Some of them, there were some things wrong in the characters, but in a, in a business setting, if I want to go 2% higher, you know, get know, that productive edge. What’s the diagnosis?
Liz Shuler: 9:31
Right.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:31
Isn’t it? There is no right. It’s like Tom wants more and I don’t think an insurance company would pay for 20 sessions with a therapist to get me 2% better or what have you.
Liz Shuler: 9:44
And
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:44
get
Liz Shuler: 9:44
around
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:45
I think some people
Liz Shuler: 9:46
people have used things like adjustment disorder
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:51
or some of the, you
Liz Shuler: 9:52
less problematic labels to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:55
get
Liz Shuler: 9:55
people
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 9:56
the healing that they need. know, Giving
Liz Shuler: 9:59
them a label that could follow them for the rest of their lives.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:04
But even when you’re having those
Liz Shuler: 10:08
profound symptoms of, being depressed or
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:11
having anxiety, in my view,
Liz Shuler: 10:16
after everything I’ve seen in the mental health industry, it’s just not real.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:22
just being a human. It’s dealing with what’s happening in
Liz Shuler: 10:27
in our lives,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:28
and maybe not knowing how to deal with what’s happening in our lives. And
Liz Shuler: 10:34
the DSM diagnosis,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:36
calling it a
Liz Shuler: 10:37
a disease,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:38
I think has been helpful in one way for stigma,
Liz Shuler: 10:42
but in other ways, it’s
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:45
this false dichotomy
Liz Shuler: 10:46
of
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:47
people who are mentally ill And people who aren’t. Right. And that’s just not true. Even
Liz Shuler: 10:53
the people who created the DSM.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 10:56
I’ve said you know, it’s just made up. Oh
Liz Shuler: 10:59
Yep.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:02
Is it DSM four now? Or is it DSM
Liz Shuler: 11:05
I
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:06
actually fifth revised. Oh, wow. Keep changing her mind. That’s mental health, right? So let’s dig in then to the business side. So going outside of insurance for a lot of practitioners is very scary now people are conditioned that. I have a condition, so insurance should pay for it. So how do you design a business that still you’re leading with your heart, but you’re able to, you know, live indoors and eat
Liz Shuler: 11:40
Yeah, and that’s always the balance, right? And it’s really difficult, even for therapists who take insurance, to help people understand
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:50
why they charge what they
Liz Shuler: 11:51
charge.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:53
so, moving
Liz Shuler: 11:54
out of that,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:56
gives a little bit
Liz Shuler: 11:57
more freedom,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 11:58
because you have to understand in the therapy world, there are certain
Liz Shuler: 12:03
parameters that you have to fit into. There’s a box,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:07
and that is a legally defined
Liz Shuler: 12:09
box. Uh, So stepping out of that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:12
means you can lose
Liz Shuler: 12:14
your license, means you can be criminally prosecuted in some states um, but there’s also a
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:22
lack of accountability, because A lot of therapists do those things, get a slap on the
Liz Shuler: 12:27
the wrist, and then
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:28
go to a
Liz Shuler: 12:29
a different state
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:30
and have a
Liz Shuler: 12:32
a different life. So It’s, really
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:34
it’s like this box
Liz Shuler: 12:35
that if you are
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:36
ethical practitioner, you feel scared to come out
Liz Shuler: 12:39
of. But
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:41
a lot of the unethical practitioners
Liz Shuler: 12:43
just do whatever they want and don’t have a lot of consequences.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:49
So
Liz Shuler: 12:50
talking about fees and talking about money, Is one of those things that’s in the box
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:56
that
Liz Shuler: 12:57
people
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 12:59
are you know,
Liz Shuler: 13:00
you are there to serve. And it almost becomes a martyr complex,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:06
you’re supposed to help these people, even
Liz Shuler: 13:08
if you’re not doing. Okay.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:10
And
Liz Shuler: 13:12
I don’t ascribe to that, because I can’t help you
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:16
if I’m a mess. Right? Being more transparent
Liz Shuler: 13:20
about that.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:21
my
Liz Shuler: 13:21
fees and what I’m charging and why I’m charging is part of the way that I am combating that. So I charge right now 200 euro per hour
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:35
and I have
Liz Shuler: 13:37
packages that have discounts. So the more sessions you buy with me,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:42
the less it is per
Liz Shuler: 13:43
hour, basically. So I try to keep it
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:48
a little bit affordable
Liz Shuler: 13:49
that way.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:50
But you have to also remember
Liz Shuler: 13:52
that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:52
I’m only being
Liz Shuler: 13:53
paid for the time that we are face to face.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:55
Right.
Liz Shuler: 13:56
But that’s not all the work that I do.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 13:58
Exactly.
Liz Shuler: 13:59
I am preparing for our sessions. I am taking a lot of
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:04
continuing education. I am looking for resources. I am making sure that if something that you said to me, I
Liz Shuler: 14:13
don’t know anything about, that I’m gonna go research that.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:16
So there’s at
Liz Shuler: 14:17
least an hour. outside of the face to face hour
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:22
that I’m doing
Liz Shuler: 14:22
work for you.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:24
And then I have all the other business stuff I have to run. Right. That
Liz Shuler: 14:28
That I don’t, and I don’t get paid for any of it. I’m only getting paid for that one hour face to face. So
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:35
200 euro an hour
Liz Shuler: 14:36
seems like a lot,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:38
but when you think about, you know, The two or
Liz Shuler: 14:40
or three hours of work that has to go out behind the scenes.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:44
Yeah.
Liz Shuler: 14:44
It’s, Maybe 50?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:46
then, And then
Liz Shuler: 14:47
then there’s all the taxes and all the other things that you have to pay.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:50
Yeah. Yeah. Well, That’s interesting.
Liz Shuler: 14:52
Just trying to be, Yeah. transparent.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 14:55
Yeah. Absolutely. It went when I uh, doing fitness. So that was kind of the model as know, buy 10 sessions and I’ll give you the 11th for free and, or by 50 sessions and the rate goes lower. Eventually what I was finding is know, that time for money was just not working and it wasn’t serving the clients and it wasn’t serving me or the trainers as well. So eventually we went to a membership model that allowed clients to come in up to three or four times or sometimes unlimited times for their workout. they were just charged a monthly fee. or a yearly fee. And they knew exactly what that was. They could budget it and all that. And a lot of practitioners that I’ve been talking to go to that, like that package. It’s going to be 5, 000 for the year, period, end of story. No nickel and dime, no like counting sessions. It’s, you’re going to get what need to to get better. And I think, I mean, that’s a shift, obviously, from, you know, a lot of, Practitioners going fee for service know, per hour. But what do you think about that? Do you a, a way that you could change or not?
Liz Shuler: 16:14
Yeah,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:14
that that’s something that down the
Liz Shuler: 16:16
the line, as I’m
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:19
moving toward
Liz Shuler: 16:21
trying
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:22
create more opportunities for affordable services. that I am thinking about. Yeah. Right
Liz Shuler: 16:30
now,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:31
my business is probably less than a
Liz Shuler: 16:35
a year old at this point
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:36
uh, I’m
Liz Shuler: 16:37
In the ground floor. and trying to build some things. I, do also think that things like courses,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:46
I
Liz Shuler: 16:46
I know that they, have a bad rap
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:48
people are scammy
Liz Shuler: 16:49
and
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:50
whatever, but having courses that are like yoga therapy courses. or courses that help
Liz Shuler: 16:57
people integrate
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 16:59
psychedelic experiences with a lot of the same tools that we can use face to face. it’s not as powerful Because you’re not
Liz Shuler: 17:07
having that relational connection that I really feel is healing, but it allows me to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:14
put a whole
Liz Shuler: 17:14
bunch of work up front
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:16
and then you pay you know, 300 euro for a course
Liz Shuler: 17:22
that you have for the rest of your life.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:24
And I
Liz Shuler: 17:25
I get
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:25
help people that couldn’t afford
Liz Shuler: 17:27
working with me individually.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:29
Yeah. So I’m doing that
Liz Shuler: 17:30
now.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:32
That’s great. And eventually, I think, once I have a client base built
Liz Shuler: 17:36
up,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:37
I’ll probably move to more of like a membership model or something that’s, you know,
Liz Shuler: 17:41
more affordable and feels, I don’t know, more expansive,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 17:48
yeah. That’s good. And, you know, I’ve, I’ve certainly done the course creation as well, because what I was finding is I was saying the same thing to every client. And at that point, I you know, let me just record this. And then,
Liz Shuler: 18:02
Mhm.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:03
you’re going to have these issues coming up, go to lesson one, five and eight. deal with you know, you know, and then during our session and maybe now it’s it’s every other week. Now we can have a chat about what you learned from the course. And I, And I see a lot of people shifting to that and does, does people a lot of good as well it’s one, not as expensive or I should say more affordable for some people. Um, And then it, but it gives you the same of of help and support that, that you need. Right.
Liz Shuler: 18:37
Yeah. And again, it gives you that foundation, like you’re talking
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:43
The things
Liz Shuler: 18:43
that you’re going tell
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:44
everybody, you might as
Liz Shuler: 18:46
as well give to people so that they can start there. And then when you
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:51
to work with me, we do some of that deeper
Liz Shuler: 18:53
or higher level work.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 18:54
Yeah, cool. So obviously let’s talk a little bit about psychedelics because um, really intriguing. It’s obviously coming up more and more uh, in the States and I know in Europe And, And just why don’t you tell our listeners where you are right now, because I think it’s fascinating.
Liz Shuler: 19:12
I am currently in Kortrijk, Belgium.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:15
Belgium.
Liz Shuler: 19:17
Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:17
Love Belgium. And I love Belgian beer. Yes, it’s the best
Liz Shuler: 19:21
the best beer in the world.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:23
So many different varieties as well. that’s, That’s that’s very cool. And are you practicing with people in the States as well? um, just
Liz Shuler: 19:33
Yeah,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:34
I have a small in person practice here, Where we, I actually have a really nice, um, Nature path right close to
Liz Shuler: 19:42
to my house.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:42
Oh, nice. And
Liz Shuler: 19:43
and we do
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:43
and talk
Liz Shuler: 19:44
sessions. um,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:45
is really
Liz Shuler: 19:46
nice
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 19:46
being out in
Liz Shuler: 19:47
in nature is one of those healing things, especially for integrating psychedelics, where you’re feeling that big expansive connection to everything. It really helps bring everything back together. But then I also do a lot of online sessions for anybody around the world.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:06
Cool. So what what a normal, or I shouldn’t say normal, typical might look like. I had to say that. Oh, that’s really difficult. No, the, what the um, therapy would be like psychedelic, and then post uh, psychedelic. yeah, so again, I think it’s going to
Liz Shuler: 20:25
differ a little bit based on substance. and it’s going to differ a little bit based on
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:32
what sort of
Liz Shuler: 20:34
are you going to have a trip
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:34
Are you going to do a ceremony? Are you going
Liz Shuler: 20:37
going
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:37
you know, have a group retreat where you’re
Liz Shuler: 20:40
you’re taking the medicine? So most of the time
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:43
I do prep sessions. and that means that I am working with you to
Liz Shuler: 20:48
you to figure out
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:49
what substance is going to work for
Liz Shuler: 20:50
for you,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:51
how you’re going to do that safely.
Liz Shuler: 20:53
So we’re going to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 20:54
up with a plan of
Liz Shuler: 20:56
how you’re going to do that dosing session. Are you going to take it with, you
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:00
your wife or partner sitting next to you? are
Liz Shuler: 21:04
are
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:04
going to be in a
Liz Shuler: 21:05
a retreat setting?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:07
And we’ll come up
Liz Shuler: 21:08
up with a plan for whatever it is that you’re going to be doing.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:11
uh, do people do this by themselves ever, or do you recommend not doing it by yourself? When you say by
Liz Shuler: 21:18
yourself,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:20
yes,
Liz Shuler: 21:22
but
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:22
I don’t recommend
Liz Shuler: 21:24
that.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:24
Yeah. Um, I don’t think anybody in the space recommends taking a substance and
Liz Shuler: 21:29
and being completely alone.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:31
Um, I don’t think you
Liz Shuler: 21:32
need always, like, a trained guide.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:36
You can have somebody who is there,
Liz Shuler: 21:40
who you have a plan with.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:43
And who, you something happens. Can get you to safety or do whatever needs to
Liz Shuler: 21:47
to happen.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 21:48
Oh, that’s cool. I was a trip sitter in college once and I didn’t know that’s what it was called, but my two roommates wanted to drop acid and I was like I’ll, I’ll watch you guys. And it was wild. Yup. Yup. Yeah. So just having someone there who’s sober
Liz Shuler: 22:06
to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:06
you from doing stupid things or Yeah. yeah,
Liz Shuler: 22:11
Right.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:12
psychedelics really, really safe. And
Liz Shuler: 22:15
and if you’ve done the prep work you’ve,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:17
know, made sure that you’re
Liz Shuler: 22:18
you’re physically
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:20
safe to take the substance that you’re
Liz Shuler: 22:21
you’re working with. Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:26
people would, might take? Oh, there’s so many. So I
Liz Shuler: 22:30
I think the most common would be psilocybin. LSD.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:37
Yep. Or magic truffles. Oh. In the
Liz Shuler: 22:40
the Netherlands it’s just the
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:42
little underground bits of the mushroom. Oh, okay. It’s technically a
Liz Shuler: 22:46
a different plant.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:47
Oh, interesting. Legally. Legally
Liz Shuler: 22:50
Not yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 22:52
So psilocybin,
Liz Shuler: 22:53
LSD, DMT, I Can’t ever remember the chemical name,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:03
But it’s basically the active
Liz Shuler: 23:06
ingredient in ayahuasca.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:07
Oh, okay. All right. Cool. We also have DMT, endogenous, in our bodies and brains. Oh, really?
Liz Shuler: 23:15
hmm. Yeah, so that’s pretty cool.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:19
Where was I? DMT, Mescaline,
Liz Shuler: 23:23
uh, which is, peyote. We
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:26
Dead
Liz Shuler: 23:27
ayahuasca, and ketamine.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:29
Oh, kind of the five common
Liz Shuler: 23:31
ones. So
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:35
get them all prepped up so they like, what they should take, they get their body ready, they have somebody kind of watching over them as well, and so then they the the medication, and then what, and everybody’s going to be a little bit different, right? That’s kind of the whole idea. What’s then the integration So, I think that’s really the fascinating thing for me. The
Liz Shuler: 23:57
the integration afterwards
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 23:59
is
Liz Shuler: 24:00
explaining and processing your experiences.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:03
Because some people are going to
Liz Shuler: 24:05
going to have, Alien experiences, There’s experiences with angels,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:11
experiences of
Liz Shuler: 24:12
of the spirit of the plant. Some people are
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:15
going to feel like they
Liz Shuler: 24:16
they died, right?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:19
Complete ego death. So there can be some really challenging experiences and you want to be able to process
Liz Shuler: 24:25
those and just share them. first of all.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:29
Yeah. And to somebody who’s
Liz Shuler: 24:31
who’s not going to be
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:32
you’re Oh, right. A professional. yeah. Or, Or at least somebody knows that that’s normal
Liz Shuler: 24:38
for what you’ve went through.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:41
And then you’re going to try and make meaning out of
Liz Shuler: 24:43
of that.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:44
What does that mean to
Liz Shuler: 24:45
to you?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:46
If you were to take a
Liz Shuler: 24:47
a message from that, what would that be?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:50
And then
Liz Shuler: 24:50
then whatever that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:51
is, that meaning, we’re going to create
Liz Shuler: 24:54
practices
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:55
and habits and make changes in your
Liz Shuler: 24:57
your life
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 24:59
to really support that meaning get you to the place
Liz Shuler: 25:05
that the medicine wanted you to go.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:07
Interesting. Is it that the medicine is just opening up pathways in our brain that just have either been dormant or are subconscious and just bringing that up to the surface? Things that we’ve maybe repressed and just not
Liz Shuler: 25:24
so really interesting because there are some
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:28
physical things we
Liz Shuler: 25:29
we can see. So for
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:31
a lot of the like, psilocybin, LSD, the tryptamines, they are really new
Liz Shuler: 25:39
new neurons in your brain and opening up
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:44
the neurogen, or the plasticity in our
Liz Shuler: 25:48
our brain so that it’s really easy to change those pathways.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:52
So if you’ve ever tried to do something different, right, have a
Liz Shuler: 25:54
have a habit,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:55
you try and
Liz Shuler: 25:56
and break it, it’s difficult.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 25:58
Right. When you take psychedelics, It makes
Liz Shuler: 26:02
that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:03
a hundred times
Liz Shuler: 26:04
easier,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:05
Because your brain is so willing to create those new pathways, change those
Liz Shuler: 26:09
those pathways.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:12
But that’s not the only thing that
Liz Shuler: 26:14
that happens.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:15
We have those
Liz Shuler: 26:16
those mystical experiences
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:18
that, for most
Liz Shuler: 26:21
people,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:22
are the real catalyst for whatever changes they
Liz Shuler: 26:25
they make afterwards.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:27
Okay. And so that’s where the
Liz Shuler: 26:30
the meaning making really comes in. Because those mystical experiences,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:36
yes, your brain is open to them. It’s easier to
Liz Shuler: 26:39
to make those changes, but you wouldn’t be making those changes.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:43
without some sort of other message or
Liz Shuler: 26:46
or meaning or something that happened during that experience.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 26:49
Okay. And is is that why a lot um, recovery, like drug and um, centers are using ketamine or psychedelics now to break that habit then? Yes. Yeah.
Liz Shuler: 27:03
Because most psychedelics are non addictive,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:07
They don’t create physical tolerance. They don’t create psychological tolerance,
Liz Shuler: 27:13
so they’re
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:13
safer for people with addictions to
Liz Shuler: 27:16
to use,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:17
but they
Liz Shuler: 27:17
they also, again,
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:19
create that opening in the
Liz Shuler: 27:21
the neural pathways
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:23
So it’s easier to let go of that need for that reward, that dopamine.
Liz Shuler: 27:28
Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:30
mean, that’s, like, that seems like the best benefit for, especially the opioid that’s, that’s going on right now and meth and you know, really the drugs that are killing uh, getting them to help and using, Things that just open up that
Liz Shuler: 27:49
We
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:49
be
Liz Shuler: 27:49
be using
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:50
the tools that nature is giving us.
Liz Shuler: 27:52
us, right?
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:54
These
Liz Shuler: 27:55
medicines have been used for We
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 27:59
even
Liz Shuler: 27:59
even know how long they’ve
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:00
used, right? For healing and for things like addictions. Yeah. That’s Incredible. cool. Well, Liz, thank you so much for sharing
Liz Shuler: 28:09
Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:10
incredible. Um, And thanks for sharing your story about being a heart led and and what that’s like for you personally. What, What one piece of advice might you give to somebody just starting out? And I know you’ve kind of transitioned your practice in the last year, so this is probably fresh on your mind, but what what type of advice, just one piece that you might give to somebody that is struggling with making that Yeah,
Liz Shuler: 28:34
letting go of
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:36
Whatever it was that you were
Liz Shuler: 28:38
you were doing before
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:39
be
Liz Shuler: 28:40
be really difficult.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:41
And leaping
Liz Shuler: 28:42
into something that feels really scary feels like there’s not a lot of stability, right? So having a plan beforehand to
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 28:56
yourself that foundation so that you’re not
Liz Shuler: 29:00
scared. and you can build from there.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:03
So for example, I
Liz Shuler: 29:04
I have
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:05
a bit of savings that I can live off
Liz Shuler: 29:07
off of
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:08
And if I don’t make any
Liz Shuler: 29:09
any money
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:10
for a year or two, I’m
Liz Shuler: 29:11
I’m fine. So there’s no fear there for me. Right.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:16
So making sure that
Liz Shuler: 29:17
that you have that plan first
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:19
is a really good
Liz Shuler: 29:20
good foundation so
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:21
can
Liz Shuler: 29:22
can be led from
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:23
that knowing and
Liz Shuler: 29:24
and that
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:25
that intuition rather than
Liz Shuler: 29:26
than fear.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:27
Yeah, because I’m sure if, if you’re coming from a place of fear, that’s a place of scarcity, that’s going to not open up that heart and not going to, you’re not going to lead with the heart. So that’s really great great
Liz Shuler: 29:39
Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:40
Yeah. Thanks for, Thanks for sharing that. And now if people are in in working different, different ways, how can they get ahold of you? So
Liz Shuler: 29:48
I’m really active on LinkedIn. I work with a lot of professionals.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:52
Awesome. So you can find me at Inner
Liz Shuler: 29:54
at innerevolutioncoaching. I’m also on Instagram at the same handle.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 29:59
um, and
Liz Shuler: 30:00
and you can find my website innerevolutioncoach.com.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:02
com. Well, We’ll link all that up into the show notes. So listeners make sure you’re checking that out. uh, I know our guests always like it when people reach out to them and see how they’re doing and this episode has definitely affected them. So Liz, again, thank you so much for coming onto the show. I really appreciate you and all that you’re
Liz Shuler: 30:23
Thank you. It was so good.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:24
you for letting me
Liz Shuler: 30:25
me geek out about psychedelics.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:27
absolutely. I love geeking out on all sorts of things. So awesome.
Liz Shuler: 30:31
Yeah.
tom-jackobs_1_05-29-2024_200239: 30:32
And also a message to our listeners. Thank you for listening and watching the show today. We really do appreciate it. Make sure you are checking out what Liz is doing and and, and, what we’ve provided in the show notes. And also if you could do what other considerate listeners are doing, and that is giving the show a rating and a review, hopefully five stars. And cause that really uh, spread the word and get more the, the help that they need and the stories on being a heart led business. So until next time, lead
Speaker 2: 31:03
You’ve been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.
