What happens when a doctor’s personal health struggles lead to a complete career transformation? Dr. Deb Andrew started as a traditional physician, but her battle with hypothyroidism and perimenopause led her to the world of functional medicine, changing not just her own life but the lives of countless patients.
Despite her early success, a crippling financial crisis nearly ended her practice. The turning point? Business coaching that not only saved her clinic but also taught her the secrets of thriving as a heart-led entrepreneur. Her journey is a powerful testament to resilience, mentorship, and the revolutionary impact of combining medicine with business savvy.
This episode is packed with inspiration, practical insights, and a fresh perspective on what it takes to build a successful, heart-centered practice. Whether you’re a healthcare professional, an entrepreneur, or someone passionate about holistic wellness, you won’t want to miss this conversation.
🎧 Tune in now and discover how passion, perseverance, and the right guidance can transform not just a business, but an entire industry.
Key Takeaways from this Episode
- The power of caring in healthcare and business
- Overcoming personal health challenges
- The transition from traditional to functional medicine
- The financial and emotional rollercoaster of starting a practice
- The impact of business coaching on healthcare practices
- Strategies for creating a self-managing company
- The importance of mentorship in entrepreneurship
About the Guest
Dr. Deb Matthew, America’s Happy Hormones Doctor, is a best-selling author, speaker, and expert in hormone health. Featured on NBC, ABC, CBS, PBS, and FOX, she helps patients reclaim their vitality through Signature Wellness in Charlotte and Belmont, NC.
Additional Resources
- Website: www.signaturewellness.org
- Email:  drmatthew@signaturewellness.org
- Facebook: www.facebook.com/signaturewellnessmd
- Instagram: www.instagram.com/drdebmatthew
- X: https://x.com/optimalhealth
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Explore the Dialogue’s Treasures: Unearth the insights within! Delve into the profound wisdom woven throughout our conversation.
Speaker: 0:01
Welcome to the Heart-Led Business Show, where compassion meets commerce and leaders lead with love. Join your host, Tom Jackobs, as he delves into the insightful conversations with visionary business leaders who defy the status quo, putting humanity first and profit second. From heartfelt strategies to inspiring stories, this podcast is your compass in the world of conscious capitalism. So buckle up and let’s go. Let your heart guide your business journey.
Tom Jackobs: 0:36
Today, our brilliant guest is the delightful Dr. Deb Matthew, America’s happy hormone doctor, a bestselling author, international speaker, and a super mom of four boys. I cannot believe that. Deb transformed her tumultuous journey with hormones into a heart led mission. So join us as she shares her inspiring insights from the world of wellness and buckle up for a ride filled with wisdom, wit, and a sprinkle of hormonal happiness. Welcome to the show, Deb.
Dr Deb Matthew: 1:07
So great to be here.
Tom Jackobs: 1:09
I’m so excited to chat with you. We’ve known each other for a long time. We’ve had conversations in the past, but it’s always just a real delight to get somebody that you know, and you like on the show and to share that wisdom with the rest of the audience. So I’m excited to dive into this. But of course, the first question I always like to ask is what’s your definition of a heart led business?
Dr Deb Matthew: 1:34
What really comes to mind when you ask this question is one of my important mentors in my life is Patrick Hannaway, who is an integrative medicine family practice physician, who was one of the people who helped start the functional medicine program at Cleveland Clinic. And his quote that I love is, the best way to care for your patient is to care for your patient. And so I feel like for a heart-led business, what that means is that you always have your patient, your customer’s best interests at heart. And when you really do that, when people feel that you care, they will respond to that. People will, come back for more. There’s so much to say about when you care for somebody. That’s an important part of the healing process when people really feel like you care. And so to me, that’s really the bulk of it is we want to care more about our patient than we do about our bottom line.
Tom Jackobs: 2:30
Yeah, no, I love that. And it mimics the old quote. Um, nobody really cares what you know until they know how much you care, which I love. That’s just a great way to live and to have a heart led business as well.
Dr Deb Matthew: 2:44
Another quote that I love is Dr. Frank Sinatra is a cardiologist, an integrative cardiologist. So of course he’s talking about, hearts and healing your heart. And he talks about how love is one of the most important healing things that we have. And so the same idea, right? The more that you show your patient that you care, the better outcomes they’re going to have.
Tom Jackobs: 3:08
Yeah. And I think that’s been shown over and over again, especially like infants. that are in the NICU. They need to be held and touched and things like that. And their healing becomes so much better. Yeah.
Dr Deb Matthew: 3:20
More
Tom Jackobs: 3:20
it’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So tell us a little bit about you and your heart-led business.
Dr Deb Matthew: 3:30
Yeah. Originally I was just a regular old doctor and was having my own health journey. I was exhausted all the time. Like napping was my favorite hobby and I was always exhausted. I was always cold. I used to carry a sweater with me everywhere I went, even in the summer in North Carolina. Because at air conditioned restaurants and movie theaters, I would just shiver uncontrollably. And I was always struggling with my weight, and these things have been going on for so many years that I didn’t even Know that there could be different. I just thought I was a cold natured person who needed way more sleep than everybody else. And twice when I was in medical school, the doctors that I was training with looked at my throat and said, your thyroid’s enlarged. You should go get it checked. But I’d go get it checked and the doctor would tell me that the labs are normal. And that’s what we’re trained. If your labs are normal, then you have to be fine. Maybe you’re depressed, maybe you’re lazy, but it’s not your thyroid. And eventually things got even worse and I started to get anxious. I was waking up in the middle of the night with panic attacks for no apparent reason. And I was so irritable. I was shrieking at my kids over the stupidest little things. And then I felt like the worst mom ever. I felt so guilty for just always flying off the handle. And my poor husband is the one that really had to put up with the majority of my wicked witch of the west impersonation. He used to actually call from the car on the way home from work because he could tell by the tone of my voice whether it was safe to come home or whether he needed to put on a suit of armor before he walked in the door for his own protection.
Tom Jackobs: 5:07
Oh my gosh.
Dr Deb Matthew: 5:08
I knew that how I was feeling was not normal. I knew that this wasn’t me, but nothing in my medical training helped me understand what was going on. It was just so confusing. And what really changed everything for me is my husband gave me a book that was written by Suzanne Somers. And you remember Suzanne Somers, right? She was the ditzy blonde in Three’s Company and the Thighmaster Lady and not the person that I wanted to take my medical advice from. Yeah. But he gave me this book, and I looked at it and said you’ve got to be kidding me. And he looked at me and said, Honey, we’ve got to do something. And so I read the book, and it was a book about women’s hormones. It was called The Sexy Years. When I read about the women in the book who were just like me, they were all a hot mess, and then how much better they felt when they got their hormones balanced. It allowed me to open my mind and really understand what was going on. I, by that point, had been diagnosed with hypothyroidism. It had taken 10 years for my thyroid labs to go out of range, but at this point I’d already been on the standard thyroid medicine for 10 years and I didn’t feel any better. I was also going through starting perimenopause, but I had no idea. I was in my late 30s. Who’s thinking about menopause when you’re in your 30s? But that’s why I was irritable and anxious and not sleeping. So once I understood what was going on, I was able to find solutions and get my hormones back in balance. I got my energy back, my kids got their mom back, my husband got his wife back, and I got my life back. But I couldn’t go back to just writing prescriptions all day long every day because that didn’t make any sense anymore. So I went and completely retrained, learned about this new way of actually getting to the root cause of why people aren’t feeling well. And for the last now almost 20 years, I’ve helped men and women get their hormones back in balance so that they can get well, get off a lot of those prescription medicines and love the way they feel.
Tom Jackobs: 7:07
Wow. What a journey. And so it was more than 10 years from
Dr Deb Matthew: 7:13
Yeah. It was really, If I look back to when I first started having the symptoms of being cold and tired, et cetera, it was about 10 years before I got diagnosed and 10 years before my labs went far enough out of kilter, but then another whole 10 years before I really got resolution. So really I had symptoms for 20 years before I finally felt good. I’m on a mission to help women especially, but men too, to not suffer unnecessarily for two decades with symptoms that are unnecessary. My story is not rare. My story is actually really common. There are so many people out there who don’t feel good and they go to their doctor to complain. And they’ve got their laundry list of symptoms. They’re irritable, they’re bloated, they can’t sleep, they can’t remember why they walked in the room, and they get blown off. They’re told it’s just your age, this is normal here’s your antidepressant or your sleeping pill, or you just have to get through this. And we’re not taken seriously and it’s not okay. And things have to change.
Tom Jackobs: 8:09
Yeah, absolutely. So you’re in traditional medicine and then transitioned to functional medicine. Yeah. So what was that transition like for you?
Dr Deb Matthew: 8:20
It was a bumpy ride. When I first opened my practice, I really, I had never had any desire to be in business or to own my own practice. I just wanted to help people. But once I, I learned this new approach, I really felt an obligation to do this. And I remember the moment too, when I was learning about it I went and shadowed some other practitioners, as part of my learning. And one of the people that I shadowed was Dr. Pam Smith, who is somebody who’s lectured for many years at A4M. She’s trained a lot of the other practitioners who practice this way. And I remember sitting in her office one day in Michigan, in Detroit, women would come in, it was their first time ever, coming in to see her, and they would come in and they would be crying, and they’d have a towel in their purse to for the hot flashes to wipe their face, or they’d have a little fan or something. They were just a hot mess. They’d be boo hooing and, But then I would see the women coming in who’d now been coming for a couple of months and they were telling their stories of how they felt so much better. And then there’d be the women who’d been her patient for many years coming in and they felt great and they were so grateful and as I’m sitting there listening to all their stories and seeing all their transformations, what’s going through my head is now that I know what I know, how can I not? It’s terrifying to open your own practice and start something, a whole different way of practicing medicine. But that was the moment that day sitting in her office in Detroit where I realized I have to do this. This is, there’s no other choice. I feel an obligation to help other women. So I opened the practice. We saw the first patient January 27th of 2007. And I started off with great hopes and vision and I was going to make an impact in the world. But the one piece That I had under I was I didn’t quite have all figured out is this whole idea that I knew nothing about How to have a business. I knew absolutely nothing about how to be a boss or hire people or, I didn’t know what a profit and loss report files. Literally five years into the business, somebody said, can I do whatever about your PNL report? And I’m like, what’s that? I have no idea what that is. Started off Gamebusters, but I will never forget the night a year later. It was a Thursday night at nine o’clock, January of 2008. My husband and I are sitting across from each other at the kitchen table. We’ve put the kids to bed. I’ve got my laptop open in front of me. There’s a stack of bills beside it. And we’re just staring at each other across the table. We’re not saying anything because truthfully, we just don’t even know what to say. Like we’ve just done the math and figured out that at this point owe the bank a million dollars. The business is failing like really failing. have no idea how to do anything differently. I don’t know if we’re going to go bankrupt or we’re going to lose our house. And what I did know is that I loved what I was doing. My patients were getting better. They’re referring their friends and family. Like the medicine part of the business was awesome. It’s just the business part of the business. Was clearly not. And we had to make a decision in that moment. And what I decided is that I loved what I was doing. I really believed in practicing medicine this way. And so I decided that I was going to keep on going at least to pay off, we had this big debt to the bank. I had four more years on my lease. My husband’s Took an outside job to help pay the bills. I took an outside job as a medical director for a med spa, to have some money coming in and I kept on going and gradually over time, the business sort of grew, but it took me seven years. to pay off that debt. And so for seven years, I didn’t pay myself.
Tom Jackobs: 12:20
Oh.
Dr Deb Matthew: 12:21
My 401k and that was it. All the rest of the money just went towards running the business and paying off the debt. And by the time I got to the seven year mark, I remember the day that last bank, loan payment got paid. And I would have thought, I was anticipating that it was going to be this moment of euphoria. And when I saw the notice come in that, the payment went through and I knew it was the last payment, I had this moment of like, hooray, we did it. And it lasted literally for just a moment because then the door to my office. And one of my employees came running in tears. She’s all upset because so and so on the, another staff person said something to her and, they’re going at it like kindergarten. And I was so exhausted because all I did was work. I was. Going, seeing patients from the moment I walked in the door, I would fly out of the door at about 3. 30 to try to rush home to get to my kids. I had these four boys, they all played soccer. So then I transitioned to job number two, which was professional chauffeur. And I just had to get all these different kids to all their different soccer practices, preferably with two shoes each. And then by the time I get home and get the kids to bed, then I had to chart until about 11 o’clock at night to get caught back up again so that I’d be ready for the next day. So was miserable. Felt trapped at this point. Like in the beginning I kept on going because I loved what I was doing. now, seven years later, I didn’t love what I was doing. I wasn’t living authentically. I was telling my patients all day, every day, you need to take care of yourself. You need to exercise and meditate and eat healthy. And here I am eating chicken nuggets in the card of the soccer practice, like stress to the wazoo. And that didn’t feel good, but again. I didn’t know what to do. The only way that I knew to make more money, like to keep the practice afloat, was to see more patients. And there was no way that I could I was so maxed out already. And so once again. Even more than that, I felt really ashamed. Like I was so embarrassed. I did not want anybody to know just what a big failure I was. Because to the outside, here I’m lecturing in Dubai and Bali and I’m, speaking. I was, I’m one of the oral board examiners for the A4A. I’m like, I’m doing all these things that to the outside, it looks like I’m successful. My practice is busy. So it looks like I’m successful, but I’m the one that knows that, I’m not, and I’m unhappy. that’s really a burden to carry that shame of knowing that you’re a fraud.
Tom Jackobs: 15:05
.Yeah. Wow. So seven years, you’re basically working for the bank. And so your transition out of working at a practice, somebody else’s practice, right? Making a regular paycheck. And then,
Dr Deb Matthew: 15:19
I worked at a public, at the public health department
Tom Jackobs: 15:22
oh, two mornings
Dr Deb Matthew: 15:22
a week while I had little children. That was my prior job
Tom Jackobs: 15:26
Oh, okay. Wow. Okay. Yeah. And in medical school, they didn’t train you anything about PNLs or accounting or marketing.
Dr Deb Matthew: 15:35
or yeah, nothing.
Tom Jackobs: 15:37
So seven years, was it just grinded out for seven years? And you’re like, I’m just going to figure this out and I’m going to pay off the bank. Or did you get some help?
Dr Deb Matthew: 15:48
So here’s my mantras as I kept going. One of them was, it’s better to be a good person than a good business person. And I was helping people, so that felt good to be helping my patients get better, and the fact that I was not really being compensated for it, at least I was helping people. Because my husband had a real job I could, if I was the breadwinner for the family, we would have had to close years and years ago, right? But it would, I felt occasionally, I would get criticized for having a cash practice because I opened in 2007. Nobody really had cash practices way back then. But if I was ever criticized that I was just trying to take people’s money, at least it made me feel better to know I wasn’t benefiting financially at all from any of this. So that helped my conscience to feel better. But I kept telling myself that in the beginning, you just have to work hard and in the end, it’s all going to work out. And on year one, that made sense. And on year two, it still made sense by year seven. Like I was over it, right? Clearly there’s nowhere to go from here. I can’t see more patients. And what happens with a lot of businesses is not just mine is as you get busier and you have more patients, you would think you’d be more profitable, but your expenses go up. You have to hire more people and you need more space. And, so you just. You’re working harder and harder, but you’re just like treading water. And I just, I was not able to get ahead.
Tom Jackobs: 17:12
Yeah. Yeah. Nothing fixes bad margins in any business. It’s the only thing that fixes bad margins is better margins are getting that fix, and bringing in more than what you’re spending. And so how did you finally figure that? Before we get into that, what’s interesting is so many heart centered people that I speak with, business owners, they go through a very similar transition where It’s like, Oh, I’m giving, giving. And I love to give. And then at some point it’s I can’t give any more. This is because it’s been taking so much.
Dr Deb Matthew: 17:48
Yeah.
Tom Jackobs: 17:49
the more that heart led business owners and want to be heart led business owners, or that want to go into business, you need to realize this and take Deb’s story to heart. Please, that you have to take care. Don’t take, yeah, don’t take seven years. Yeah.
Dr Deb Matthew: 18:06
I remember a moment towards the end of the seven year mark, my sister came to visit. It was over my birthday week. And so I’m working all day and like by working all day, no bathroom breaks, no lunch breaks. Like I’m always an hour behind. Like I’m just drowning in patience. Busting out to try to look after all the kids and make sure everybody’s been fed and nobody’s bleeding. And if nobody’s bleeding and there’s no lizards loose in the house, I felt like it was a successful day at home. At the end of the week, it’s time for her to go. And I found this shirt folded up on the counter that was unsimilar to me. And so I said to her I handed her this shirt and I said, Oh, don’t forget your shirt, right? It must be hers. Cause I’ve never seen it before. And she looked at me with this really strange look and she said that’s the shirt that I gave you for your birthday present. And I had been so just stressed and maxed out that I don’t, I didn’t even remember. Opening this present and this shirt like I was so mortified first of all that like I didn’t even register it but to me that was a sign that I was way over stretched And what else was I not even registering on the day to day because I was just so overtaxed.
Tom Jackobs: 19:27
Yeah.
Dr Deb Matthew: 19:28
I’m still mortified by that. I still have the shirt It reminds me all the time.
Tom Jackobs: 19:33
Wow. What a reminder too. So how did you fix it? Cause clearly you’re back in business. You’re thriving of course. Awesome. Phyllis. Everybody needs a friend like Phyllis. So my friend Phyllis Okerecki is a doctor, that does functional medicine like this. And she and I are both examiners at the A4M. So whenever we go to these conferences we end up, spending time together doing these, proctors for these exams or examiners for the oral exams. And she is a signer upper. I’m a signer upper too. Okay. But Phyllis goes first. She signs up for all the things and then she comes back and tells me which ones weren’t worth the money, which ones were really awesome. And she’s never led me astray yet. And I, in fact, I just saw her in December this past year. She’s still giving me advice. So on this particular occasion, so it’s the spring conference in 2014, we were in Florida and she said that she signed up with this practice coaching company. And that it was really helping her and she thought that it would help me too. And I went and talked to them and what they did was they literally flew me down to San Antonio, Texas, and spent the day explaining how it was all going to work. And. They, they said how much it was, and it turns out that the monthly charge for that coaching program was literally exactly the same amount as what I had been paying for my bank loan. The last bank loan got paid off in May of 2014. And so in June of 2014, I got paid off. I signed up for this coaching program and it seemed like serendipity, right? Like it was meant to be, I was already used to paying that. So I just slid it on over into here. But what happened when I got business coaching is that I learned about all the things that I didn’t know I didn’t know. And I think that’s such an important thing for us medical practitioners to know is. There’s so much out there to know that we don’t even just like this whole P and L, right? There’s so much that we just have no clue and we’re smart people. We can learn, but we have to know that there’s something to learn in order to learn it. I learned. I learned how to talk to patients about money without feeling like a car salesman. I learned how to treat my team so that they would actually do what I wanted them to do. Because before that, oh my gosh, it was like Lord of the Flies in my office. Nobody did anything that I wanted and all I did was come home and I’d complain to my husband and my sister and my mom and anybody who would listen to me about how my employees are never doing what I wanted them to do. And I didn’t realize that the problem that. The boss. Yeah. but so I learned so many things and the business turned around right away. So within three months we became profitable really within the first month we turned a profit but within three months we became a profitable business and it’s not stopped growing since then. That was 2014. It’s been a decade. And because I had a really good experience with working with that initial coaching company, I kept on. Following Phyllis’s lead and signing up for more things. So I learned copywriting and public speaking and all kinds of different leadership that has completely transformed everything. And in 2021 I had another sort of seven years after starting with the coaching company. I had another sort of epiphany that. I was ready to turn the practice over to the team. Like I wanted to have a self managing company where I didn’t have to be the one that made all the decisions. And so over the last three years, I’ve been working on that. And at this point the practice doesn’t need me anymore. I have a team that is great at looking after the patients. To be honest, sometimes I feel like they do a much better job than I do. I have a management team that can run all the day to day. So I’m not really needed. I’m not in the day to day running of the practice anymore, and that allows me to focus on growth and vision and where can the practice go next. It also allows me to be outside of the practice to help spread the word, to help more people know that there’s a different way that they can get healthy. They don’t have to just rely on their doctor to prescribe a pill, which we all know isn’t really going to fix this. the problems. And it also allows me to help other practitioners to get their practices going because I really feel that the way that I can have the most impact is not to sit one on one across the table with one person and explain why sugar is bad for them. It’s to help hundreds of other practitioners sit across the table to help thousands of other patients to learn how to become healthy. Yeah. That is so powerful too. Just, and I liked the analogy of the payment being the same to the bank as it was to the coaching company
Dr Deb Matthew: 24:24
It seemed like serendipity.
Tom Jackobs: 24:26
at the ROI was completely different. I spoke to an accountant once early on in my business where same situation kept growing, but profit was deteriorating even faster than the growth was happening as I was going in the exact opposite direction. And I was like, asking an accountant, a professional, what should I do? And she was like, I don’t know, make more money. I’m like, Oh wow, thank you so much. That’s great advice.
Dr Deb Matthew: 24:53
If only.
Tom Jackobs: 24:54
So what piece of advice would you give to a new entrepreneur? That’s a heart-led business owner that wants to follow their passion and start a business that’s heart-led
Dr Deb Matthew: 25:07
I’ve never heard the phrase entrepreneur, but I love that because it’s really true. Like we want to help people and start a business and provide our families, et cetera. But, If you are a medical practitioner, unless like you’ve grown up in a family full of entrepreneurs or you’ve had some kind of prior career, like we don’t know. And not only do we not know, but it’s almost like in medical school, they keep us away from that. And so we’ve, we have nothing to do with how much things cost. Most of the time we don’t even know how much things cost. And if it’s not paid for, it’s the insurance company’s fault. We can band with our patient to be outraged at the insurance company but we’re so separated from it. I think that if anybody’s going to start a business, whether you’re a medical professional or not, I really feel like we all need some help with learning how to do it. So some kind of coaching mentorship, somebody to guide us in how to do it because it is so expensive not to do that. Like whatever it costs to have a mentor, it costs 10 times more not to have a mentor. Ask me how I know because of all the mistakes, like The equipment that we buy that costs us a gajillion dollars that sits, holding dust in the closet because we can’t sell those services or, in the the thing that really killed me when I opened my practice is I had such imposter syndrome. Like when I first did my training, I initially was a pediatrician. And so I went from being a pediatrician to doing menopause management, there’s a big disconnect there and my husband before we started, he’s the smart one in the family and he was saying while we’re waiting to get our office open, start treating people like, rent some space in the back of a gym or in a compounding pharmacy, just get some experience and get started, earning some money while we’re going. But I couldn’t do that because I just felt a pediatrician in the back of the gym prescribing hormones. That’s just like way too creepy. It just, and I couldn’t do it. I felt like I needed this big fancy office around me to make me look like I knew what I was doing. Cause I didn’t feel like I knew what I was doing. And so we invested all this money into upfitting this beautiful office, but then I had to pay for all of that. And that’s what really crushed me. So had I had some Advice from somebody who knew what they were doing. They would have said, don’t invest all this money into like especially a leased space because every year the lease went up, I was drowning in, paying for the lease. And when I moved, all that money that I spent on the outfit was just completely down the drain. I couldn’t take the flooring with me. We had these beautiful bamboo floors and, I, it just, It was not a good business decision. So I think that anybody who wants to start, if you’re starting a new type of medicine, if you’re doing functional medicine or starting an aesthetics practice or whatever you’re doing, just that you need the medical education to know how to practice medicine that way. You need some kind of this business support education. Like just don’t be crazy and start without it.
Tom Jackobs: 28:13
Yeah. The cost. You just think about the interest alone that you paid on that million dollar loan like that.
Dr Deb Matthew: 28:20
think about it. I don’t want to think about it. We had to, we put in money from our, um, life saving, we took it out of our 401k, like we had to top it up just to pay the payments.
Tom Jackobs: 28:34
Yeah. So the investment in business coaching is well worth it when it’s the right business coaching. And definitely you need to do the due diligence to find the right coaches, of course. Yeah. So Deb, this was amazing. And what great stories that you shared and. Cautionary tales as well to, to the audience. So how can people find out more about you and the work that you’re doing?
Dr Deb Matthew: 28:57
My practice is Signature Wellness the website signaturewellness. org. And I’m in Charlotte, North Carolina. So we see patients in the Carolinas, but I have people flying in from across the country to come in at least one time to establish care. And then we can do telehealth after that. For the coaching part of this I don’t really have an online presence. I don’t market it. It’s just all word of mouth. and the best way if somebody’s interested to learn more about that is just to email me at drmatthew at signaturewellness. org. There’s two T’s in Matthew and no S. Drmatthew at signaturewellness. org and I’m happy to share information.
Tom Jackobs: 29:36
That’s great. That’s very generous of you as well. And we’ll link all that up into the show notes. So that’ll make it easy for everybody to find. So Deb, thank you again so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time and your wisdom. So thank you.
Dr Deb Matthew: 29:50
You’re so welcome.
Tom Jackobs: 29:51
And to our show listeners, thank you for watching the show today. We really do appreciate it. And like I said, make sure you’re checking out what Deb is doing, and we’re going to put all of that down into the show notes and do take her up on that offer. If you’re considering a million dollar build out of your new practice. You might want to talk to Deb first. Don’t do it. Yeah, definitely don’t do that. And if you could do us a solid favor, and that is to give the show a rating and review, I certainly would appreciate it. And I know those people that are looking for heart led content out on the internet, they would appreciate it as well. So until next time, lead with your heart.
Speaker 2: 30:27
You’ve been listening to the Heart Led Business Show, hosted by Tom Jackobs. Join us next time for another inspiring journey into the heart of business.
